Donny home (or maybe away)

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Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby billythefish » Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:53 am

Was thinking of maybe coming up for this. Any idea where I book the train to? Walsall, Warsaw, Brum or Donny?
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby The Yid » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:44 am

The nearest train station to Rushden is Wellingborough...
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby bolix » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:52 pm

Treat it like a normal home game but arrive three hours early.
Seppela will give you a lift.
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby The Yid » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:46 pm

Or back at the Ricoh.....
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby Des » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:48 pm

Got to be at the Ricoh, surely? The ticket logistics are going to be a nightmare, otherwise. And there's no way I'm sitting next to riff-raff.
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby AD » Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:48 pm

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/covent ... -33057617/

Seems SISU are backtracking and realise there's no way they can find somewhere else in time. Sometimes you just know somethings not been thought through properly....

ACL have already said that CCFC can finish the season there despite the people now wanting to negotiate with them trying to con them out of £1.3m (what absolute **** they are eh?) so I imagine that will be the case.

Although to have the cheek to contact ACL and ask to sort out a deal just shows the lack of any kind of respect SISU have for anyone. If it were me I'd say "OK, we charge you the same rate we'd charge a concert promoter and you give us payment up front in full. Take it or leave it. Take your time, it's not like you've got a game in four days!"
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby The Yid » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:37 pm

Yes of course those people at ACL are real heroes.... We should all be proud to have them involved in our club.....
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby AD » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:06 am

They're fully within their rights to not do anything to help. It was SISU who tried to pull a fast one and get the leasing agreement nullified...

Some people don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that this isn't ACL vs CCFC. It's ACL vs SISU, who are using CCFC as an emotional shield to block usual business practices and resolutions. If this was the landlord of SISU's offices in London trying to evict them and put them in admin for non-payment of rent, which they'd been withholding crying poverty from a loss of income caused by their own mistakes, no-one would bat an eyelid. The only reason people are looking differently at this is because it involves a business with a community aspect, and SISU are playing on that and some people are falling for it.

If SISU were thinking of the club and its fans they wouldn't have left themselves in a position where the team could get thrown out of the league for failing to fulfil its fixtures by having nowhere to play! Or risk a larger points deduction by fannying around with the league membership etc. SISU threatened liquidation of CCFC, not ACL.

ACL want to help the club as best as possible, but they steadfastly refuse to deal with SISU because they don't think that's in the best long term interests of the club, a situation I agree with given their actions. By moving the lease into a separate company it indicates they wouldn't have thought twice about doing the same had they bought the share in the ground, keeping it and the club separate and allowing them to dispose of the club and keep the stadium, leaving CCFC once more tenants in their own home. If they think the stadium is such a failing business, why have they been trying so hard to buy it?
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby The Yid » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:45 am

ACL do not want to help the club... They are more interested in their bottom line. The entire original deal for the Ricoh was preposterous, they knew fully well it would be at the clubs detriment.

They are using the emotional shield of the club to deflect away their culpability in this fiasco.
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby bolix » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:22 am

The Yid wrote:ACL do not want to help the club... They are more interested in their bottom line. The entire original deal for the Ricoh was preposterous, they knew fully well it would be at the clubs detriment.

They are using the emotional shield of the club to deflect away their culpability in this fiasco.


I've followed the reports in the media this week.
If anybody is attempting to tell the truth it is ACL not
The anonymous hedge fund.
So we're now -10 points after Sisu's sleight of hand.
If we'd won at Pompey would this have happened?
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby AD » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:47 am

The Yid wrote:ACL do not want to help the club... They are more interested in their bottom line. The entire original deal for the Ricoh was preposterous, they knew fully well it would be at the clubs detriment.

They are using the emotional shield of the club to deflect away their culpability in this fiasco.


Would you let a person renting a house off you, who hadn't paid for a year and got their rental agreement torn up and moved their assets around so you wouldn't get a penny, stay because they had nowhere else to go? Bollocks would you.

And ACL are so interested in their bottom line they offered, without having any legal requirement to do so, to reduce their own income by 800k a year.

Both these actions are to the detriment of ACL themselves and the benefit of CCFC.
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby AD » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:54 am

So it appears that ACL are calling off their admin against CCFC Ltd, as it's already in admin.

The football league and FA have decided that the share in the league resides with CCFC Ltd, so -10 is assured at least (possibly more if they decide SISU tried to hoodwink them)

Don't expect anything to happen this afternoon, but we may see a new claim by ACL against the Holding Company saying it is in effect liable for the lease (or at the very least the arrears) in the coming days/weeks.
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby bolix » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:01 pm

So does this mean our owners have lost £50 M of their investor's money?
If so they must hate the day they ever got involved.
I have little sympathy. Inept isn't the half of it.
The SBT could have done a better job.
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby AD » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:12 pm

The Yid wrote:They are using the emotional shield of the club to deflect away their culpability in this fiasco.


To use something as a shield you have to be behind it. Are ACL or SISU behind the running of CCFC?

If ACL are getting the rent off CCFC, how the hell can they hide behind it when they're charging a business with a very loyal customer base with a large emotional and community attachment? It's a totally ludicrous statement.
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby Timbo » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:27 pm

AD wrote:Would you let a person renting a house off you, who hadn't paid for a year and got their rental agreement torn up and moved their assets around so you wouldn't get a penny, stay because they had nowhere else to go? Bollocks would you.


The problem is the level of rent they are asking isn't something any sane person would be prepared to pay. Even the revised offer is too much. Unless new owners are prepared to throw good money after bad (as SISU have before the past year) we surely can't pay the rent and field a competitive team at this level.

Perhaps ACL are prepared to offer reasonable terms to a new owner or maybe they feel they don't actually need tenants - something you seem to believe although personally I remain unconvinced.

To be honest I'm amazed SISU paid the rent for as long as they did.
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby AD » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:29 pm

bolix wrote:So does this mean our owners have lost £50 M of their investor's money?
If so they must hate the day they ever got involved.
I have little sympathy. Inept isn't the half of it.
The SBT could have done a better job.


Not yet I don't think. Just because the league share is now with CCFC Ltd I don't know if all other football assets like player contracts and registrations have to be as well. I don't even know if any TV/prize money has to go to that company specifically or not, although you'd imagine it would.

I assume the golden share can be sold by the administrator to get funds. But as the administrator is appointed by SISU they at least get a say in where it goes, and I imagine they'd buy it for CCFC (Holdings) and things would be as before with one less level in the company/group structure (which SISU may well just recreate as a dormant company under a new name just in case).

But then we're in the Leeds/ Ken Bates area and what was it they got? 30 point deduction? So who would benefit from that? CCFC or SISU trying to get their cash back?
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby billythefish » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:48 pm

I can only base my comments on what I have heard/read and believe to be true and regardless of the who, what and why of whom is at fault then it isnt SISU or ACL. The root cause of all these problems lies with the board in the Richardson era. Hopefully there are a few people from that board (including orange Joe) who are feeling some sort of remorse for the current sad state of affairs at the club. But then again I doubt it.

Yes SISU have made massive mistakes but without them this club would have been in this position many years ago. Fair play to them for trying to make a success of the club despite all the problems they have inherited. I am sure their biggest regret is buying the club in the first place and how the hell we managed to convince them that it was worth purchasing is beyond me. The term buyer beware has never been so apt.

ACL havent helped and Tim makes a valid point. If they had the clubs best interests at heart then they could have made some offer when they realised the club were struggling to make end meet.

Regardless of this the real culprits are the Richardsons board from the HR days and each and every one of them should have nothing to do with this club (or any other club) ever again in in any capacity. Perhaps with the exception of Cardiff or Leicester.
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby The Yid » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:00 pm

AD wrote:
The Yid wrote:ACL do not want to help the club... They are more interested in their bottom line. The entire original deal for the Ricoh was preposterous, they knew fully well it would be at the clubs detriment.

They are using the emotional shield of the club to deflect away their culpability in this fiasco.


Would you let a person renting a house off you, who hadn't paid for a year and got their rental agreement torn up and moved their assets around so you wouldn't get a penny, stay because they had nowhere else to go? Bollocks would you.

And ACL are so interested in their bottom line they offered, without having any legal requirement to do so, to reduce their own income by 800k a year.

Both these actions are to the detriment of ACL themselves and the benefit of CCFC.


Why as a CCFC fan should I give a shit about ACL's bottom line? I'm more concerned with how the club survive and then move forward. They held the club over a barrel and left them with no choice but to sign the deal. Previously the club did create the situation to get into that mess, but I'm not falling for the ACL are 'doing the best for the club' bullshit.

As for the mortgage analogy I agree, but I wouldn't let that scenario continue for over a year... I would have sorted it in the summer once and for all.

As I have said before ACL were created to manage the facility and support the football club - not the other way round.
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby the boss » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:40 pm

does anyone know what's going on? Are we fucked or is it the start of a great new era?
2014 will be our year !!
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Re: Donny home (or maybe away)

Postby AD » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:42 pm

Timbo wrote:
AD wrote:Would you let a person renting a house off you, who hadn't paid for a year and got their rental agreement torn up and moved their assets around so you wouldn't get a penny, stay because they had nowhere else to go? Bollocks would you.


The problem is the level of rent they are asking isn't something any sane person would be prepared to pay. Even the revised offer is too much. Unless new owners are prepared to throw good money after bad (as SISU have before the past year) we surely can't pay the rent and field a competitive team at this level.

Perhaps ACL are prepared to offer reasonable terms to a new owner or maybe they feel they don't actually need tenants - something you seem to believe although personally I remain unconvinced.

To be honest I'm amazed SISU paid the rent for as long as they did.


Maybe so, but they did agree to it. So SISU (and those before them) are clearly insane [smilie=icon_mrhappy.gif]

I wouldn't be surprised if ACL did offer a slightly better to deal to someone who isn't SISU, which is petty. I think if any takeover did happen they may well look to sell to the new owner immediately to prevent another problem like this. I think they wouldn't sell to SISU because they had very severe reservations as to whether it would be kept for the long term benefit of the club.

I think the stadium doesn't need a tenant short term. The extra facilities provide it with sufficient cash to keep trading (especially now the mortgage has been 'paid') and the stadium is still relatively new and could attract quite big acts for quite a few more years yet. But as it ages and the facilities become outdated, it would struggle to attract them without a refit. A long term tenant like a football club does give that security and would see the place save some costs on upkeep as they'd let it get a bit more disheveled before doing it up.

I think ACL see CCFC playing there again in the long term, but in the short term they're willing to forego that to get rid of owners who are clearly causing trouble, just as a landlord may choose to have an empty room for a few months rather than put up with a tenant who was causing them problems.

The thing with the rent is unclear to. They talk about average rent but just how has that been worked out? Is it an average of just those clubs that pay rent or every club in the league even if their ground is freehold, thereby making the average a lot lower? You'd hop it would be the former but with SISU I just don't know...) It is a mean, meridian etc? If there's somewhere showing the rents each club pay then it'd be easy to verify but SISU haven't released their workings to my knowledge.

I tried looking it up and couldn't find enough info, and what was there was largely conjecture and guesswork. But what I could find did highlight once again how easily you can choose which bits of info to include to support your cause. SISU always talk about Ipswich which had a relatively low rent compared to a lot of others I could find but there were examples that in the last few years Bradford were paying their ex-owner 700k pa in rent + matchday costs making in excess of £1m and Bournemouth were paying around 300-400k rent, both stadium's which are older and with facilities nowhere near as good as the Ricoh. Yet SISU stayed quiet about these...
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