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Leyton Orient

Postby AD » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:29 pm

Firstly, did J. Clarke come on for G. Thomas at half time? I swear I heard them say it on the radio but the football league line ups etc say he didn't?

And secondly, about Thomas playing. I'm not here to have a go at a kid, as from the sounds of it he acquiited himself reasonably well and wanted the ball, more his selection ahead of others in the squad.

I'm not aware of much about him other than being a Wales U17, but all I've heard suggests he's a midfielder, so why was he playing up front? He was also supposed to be a replacement for Leon Clarke, but he's tiny Image.

What does that say about Slager, who only joined a few weeks ago, to be dropped for a 16 year old who as far as I can tell isn't actually a full out-and-out front man. And Daniels, who is supposed to be a striker/midfielder? Or even Maund. Or even Baker-Richardson and Forrester, who are a year ahead of Thomas in the academy, and Baker-Richardson has scored more goals?
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Re: Leyton Orient

Postby Timbo » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:47 pm

Jordan Clarke played second half.

Who says Thomas is a like for like replacement for Leon?

I don't see why his selection has to say anything about other players at the club. Why can't it be about Thomas himself. If he's going to be a star of the future then getting him in the side asap even if its for a half here and there seems like a reasonable thing to do. I'm sure Wilsons appearances in the first team last season contributed to his success this season.

Daniels was playing so it wasn't as if Thomas is ahead of him in the pecking order. Do we know all the other possible options were fit to play? Maybe he played Thomas ahead of Slager to let the latter know he has to work for his spot in the team.

With Wilson out and Leon going I think we should be playing the remainder of the season with one eye on next.
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Re: Leyton Orient

Postby AD » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:40 pm

I'm a big fan of bringing through the youngsters and am often defending them against one of Adge's "City academy and didn't score a hat-trick on his debut so must be shit" tirades. But I do have to question how suitable a 16yo first year trainee, very different in physique to our usual style of play that has served us well up to now, was in that situation.

Maybe SP was making a point, but as he brought in Slager and is now questioning him so quickly isn't that something that needs to be thought about, especially after Manset was questioned in a similar way soon after SP brought him in? Now I'm always annoyed by new signings being given a free ride by managers after bringing them in, as they seem to be reluctant on possibly admitting they made a mistake. I applaud SP for not sticking his head in the sand. But when that happens twice in such a short space of time, especially when you have little funds, you have to ask questions about a managers ability to spot players.

Even if we are looking to next season, G Thomas will still only be 17 and still an academy player, and even if he is brought more into the first team fold his contribution is likely to be sporadic so as not to burn him out so shouldn't we be looking at more realistic options for next year rather than two or three years time?

I've mentioned Slager, but Daniels apparently prefers a more forward role and is under contract next season, so why not play him up top or just behind, with Barton moving into midfield? Gives you a chance to assess him in that position looking towards next year? I'm also unaware of any injuries etc. with the likes of Maund et al, with contracts up in June you may as well have a look at them now. Would you have imagined Wilson to have had this impact on the first team at this point last year? To be honest, I thought we'd probably get rid, as he hadn't made a particularly huge impact and had injuries. Why take academy players on FT contracts if you're just going to ignore them in favour of a kid who's still barely just started training on a FT basis, and for a level much less intense than this at this stage of his development?
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Re: Leyton Orient

Postby Timbo » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:51 pm

You are over analysing things. Its one game. Its easy to find fault if you want to find it.

Daniels has had games up front this season already... he may have more. Maybe its not quite clear where his best position is. Having him play in a few different positions won't harm his development as long as it doesn't carry on too long.

Pressley said from the outset that Slager was one for the future. He may be more senior than Thomas but he's had less time working with the manager.

Why does Thomas being 17 next year stop him being an important player for us? There are a number of examples of players of that age having an impact in the football league. What if his appearances are still sporadic? Does that mean we don't start playing him until he can play regularly? Also if an academy player is starting to get noticed by bigger clubs then getting him into the first team might stop him being pinched on the cheap.

There could be a number of reasons why Pressley chose Thomas ahead of others. We can't judge when we don't know which it was. We don't know who was fit. We don't know how the individuals have been performing in training. We don't know which players he sees in his plans for next season. We don't know if some of the players weren't picked because he's trying to loan them out.
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Re: Leyton Orient

Postby billythefish » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:42 am

I have no problem with Thomas being played ahead of Slager. I am guessing that Elvis sees him as one for the future and wanted to give him some game time. I think he sees Slager as the same and Slager has started at least one game and had some time off the bench. I think that they both will be involved in some way over the remainder of the season in the same way that Wilson (and others) were last year.

Lets be honest our season is over as far as getting out of this league and why noy blood a few kids it doesnt seem to have worked too badly with the ones last season. I think we will bring someone in on loan up front till end of the season and use Slager and Thomas and possibly others off the bench.

Regarding Daniels - I dont think anyone knows his real position yet. He has played all over the place not jsut in the first team but also in the U21 and younger age groups. He seemed to start out as a striker who occasionally played midfield but seems now to be a midfielder who occasionally plays up front.
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Re: Leyton Orient

Postby The Yid » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:58 am

I don't think the season is over quite yet , although we would need to be hitting Brentfordesque form from here on in. I think what may do us a favour is if this game is called off on Saturday. Give the squad as a whole time to regroup, working with the new players we hopefully will get. Sixfields pitch is half underwater with more rain to come, I'll be amazed if they get the game on for Saturday
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Re: Leyton Orient

Postby AD » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:21 pm

I get the points you're making, but very few players step up at 16-17 years of age. Those that do tend to be physically beyond their years, like Rooney. Most others tend to fade away after a year or two because the rigours of full professional football are too much for their bodies to handle. Looking at him, Thomas is not in that category. In fact it could fuck him right up.

He may well play a bit part next season, but if we're looking for next season we need to be looking at potential to play most games, not a sub appearance here or there. At the mo, not only is the play-offs still not technically unachievable (although now highly unlikely) neither is relegation. We haven't yet got to a stage where we could consider throwing kids in just to have a look at them. That should happen in the last few games of the season (yet bizarrely, on the few occasions we've not been facing relegation battles we very rarely seem to take advantage of it)

And if we're talking about stopping others poaching him, why play him and thus potentially bring attention to him, before he can actually sign a pro contract? Otherwise, it's the shitty compensation based on years in the academy bullshit. Best known as "sweet FA", or "pittance". If a 16 yo would consider leaving because he's not yet featured for the first team, I wouldn't be against him leaving anyway, as it sounds like an ego and team morale problem waiting to happen.

TBH, I doubt he'll be thought of as a short or even medium term solution by SP, and at most he'll be on the bench from now on.
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Re: Leyton Orient

Postby The Yid » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:17 pm

The game is off on Saturday - you heard it here first.
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Re: Leyton Orient

Postby Timbo » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:33 am

The scouting at the top clubs are aware of players before they hit the first team. My point was if there is already interest in a player then getting him into the first team could raise his price as well as show the player that he can get first team football sooner if he stays where he is.

I can't believe we are still over analysing why a young lad played half a game of football when we don't know what all the other options were except that they were unproven youngsters too.
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Re: Leyton Orient

Postby Timbo » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:12 pm

Slager says he needs to get his fitness levels up and get used to the teams style of play.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/ ... oy-6653278
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Re: Leyton Orient

Postby adge » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:23 pm

AD wrote:I'm a big fan of bringing through the youngsters and am often defending them against one of Adge's "City academy and didn't score a hat-trick on his debut so must be shit" tirades. But I do have to question how suitable a 16yo first year trainee, very different in physique to our usual style of play that has served us well up to now, was in that situation.

Maybe SP was making a point, but as he brought in Slager and is now questioning him so quickly isn't that something that needs to be thought about, especially after Manset was questioned in a similar way soon after SP brought him in? Now I'm always annoyed by new signings being given a free ride by managers after bringing them in, as they seem to be reluctant on possibly admitting they made a mistake. I applaud SP for not sticking his head in the sand. But when that happens twice in such a short space of time, especially when you have little funds, you have to ask questions about a managers ability to spot players.

Even if we are looking to next season, G Thomas will still only be 17 and still an academy player, and even if he is brought more into the first team fold his contribution is likely to be sporadic so as not to burn him out so shouldn't we be looking at more realistic options for next year rather than two or three years time?

I've mentioned Slager, but Daniels apparently prefers a more forward role and is under contract next season, so why not play him up top or just behind, with Barton moving into midfield? Gives you a chance to assess him in that position looking towards next year? I'm also unaware of any injuries etc. with the likes of Maund et al, with contracts up in June you may as well have a look at them now. Would you have imagined Wilson to have had this impact on the first team at this point last year? To be honest, I thought we'd probably get rid, as he hadn't made a particularly huge impact and had injuries. Why take academy players on FT contracts if you're just going to ignore them in favour of a kid who's still barely just started training on a FT basis, and for a level much less intense than this at this stage of his development?

Jordan Clarke. :lol:
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