Last Chance Saloon

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Last Chance Saloon

Postby billythefish » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:38 pm

http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/news/ ... ndex.shtml

Sounds like the last chance for this to be resolved.

Whilst I agree with some of SISU/Otium actions - it really shouldnt have come to this.

Will the council agree to talks? Somehow I doubt it.
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby skyblue » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:47 pm

While SISU have acted like tits since buying the club they still talk more sense that the council and ACL who seem help bent on destroying the club if they can't get their own way.
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby Sky Blue Steve-o » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:53 pm

Haven't we been here before? The Council will agree to the talks so they don't look like they're being the obstructive ones, then it will go something along the lines of this:

Otium: "How much do you want for the Ricoh then? Get some independent valuers in and we'll pay up."
CCC: "It's not for sale to you. How about joint ownership or a new rental agreement?"
Otium: "We're only interested in buying the freehold outright."
CCC: "Oh well. Bye."

Followed by statement and counter statement in the media where one side blames the other, a few more bedsheets get painted and we all speculate as to where the new stadium won't be built.
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby AD » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:21 pm

I agree with Stevo. This is just one part of the roundabout that has come around again. It'll still drag on.

After the thing outside the council house SISU were quick to put in another review to the courts and come out with a very strong worded statement clearly aimed to piss the council off and make the chance of a deal unlikely. They don't want to buy it yet when its still market value - they only want it when it's on its knees and being sold for a pittance.

Seppala has already admitted the freehold of the stadium would be kept in a different company to that of the football club. When asked specifically whether the club will be charged a rent/management fee no answer is forthcoming. They say the club will have access to matchday revenues - fine. But what about the other revenues the arena makes - the rental of the other units, the concerts, the exhibitions (which according to PKH makes up 70% of the arena's revenue)? Will the club have access to those, and the benefit they would give under FFP/SCMP? Under a separate company legally I would imagine not, and similarly I can only see the matchday revenue being available under some sort of lease agreement from the company that would actually own it.

Unlike a deal between two companies, the current owners will retain an interest in the arena due to the jobs it provides, the rates etc and the costs associated with them. So whereas a private company could say "they'll be shit owners but we'll have our money so who cares" the council can't do that. They need the new owners to be responsible and SISU have shown themselves to be nothing like responsible owners.

And the dig at the end about the 10 points. When will they answer the question "Why have we spent practically two years under a transfer embargo because they couldn't guarantee funding for twelve months, but all of a sudden can guarantee five years funding, plus the cash for a new stadium, all on a fraction of the income the club received before? And if they can guarantee that why did the auditors place a severe caution over the ability of the club's funding in the last accounts? And where is the evidence to counteract the plethora of documents Bob Ainsworth produced last week that showed the administration was a complete nonsense?
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby The Yid » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:06 am

Deep breath..... And go.

Firstly - the full story clearly states that SISU requested further information in regards to the existing appeal - not another review at all - and in no way connected to the demo outside Council offices. Bit of sensationalising there from the CET.

As for Ainswortha documents - every single on was pre-SISU and there still remained a huge gap in terms of time between those documents, and when SISU took over, meaning that they prove absolutely fuck all. If he had clear documentation from after SISU's arrival then he may have been into something. In addition, as I have mentioned previously - we were de-registered and then re-registered upon relegation from PL, he has no documents after this event occurred.

As for the stadium issue - we could go around in circles forever. But ultimately SISU want to buy the freehold - so do Council want to sell? Price will be an issue I'm sure.

As for predicting SISU will do this/that etc - you're just guessing. We will find out if they buy it.

The best conspiracy I've heard is that they will liquidate club, flatten the Ricoh and turn it into flats. Fucking genius that one.....
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby billythefish » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:21 pm

The Yid wrote:Deep breath..... And go.

The best conspiracy I've heard is that they will liquidate club, flatten the Ricoh and turn it into flats. Fucking genius that one.....


SISU in
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby AD » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:29 pm

The Yid wrote:Deep breath..... And go.

Firstly - the full story clearly states that SISU requested further information in regards to the existing appeal - not another review at all - and in no way connected to the demo outside Council offices. Bit of sensationalising there from the CET.

As for Ainswortha documents - every single on was pre-SISU and there still remained a huge gap in terms of time between those documents, and when SISU took over, meaning that they prove absolutely fuck all. If he had clear documentation from after SISU's arrival then he may have been into something. In addition, as I have mentioned previously - we were de-registered and then re-registered upon relegation from PL, he has no documents after this event occurred.

As for the stadium issue - we could go around in circles forever. But ultimately SISU want to buy the freehold - so do Council want to sell? Price will be an issue I'm sure.

As for predicting SISU will do this/that etc - you're just guessing. We will find out if they buy it.

The best conspiracy I've heard is that they will liquidate club, flatten the Ricoh and turn it into flats. Fucking genius that one.....


Firstly, the request for information is once again a delaying tactic as it sets back the timescale for which the appeal is heard. In effect the time added is almost no different to asking for a completely new review.

Secondly, I also thought those documents were old and pre-SISU and why I fully expected them to show their ones that superceded this arrangement and tell the annoying twat to shut the fuck up. But they didn't. Because they hadn't changed them, and regardless of whether the owners change, as a separate legal entity the companies memorandum and articles continue unless specifically changed by the directors. They were only changed days before admin, which is clearly something that should be questioned in court as to why. And even if they decided to ignore those, it still doesn't explain why the accounts show them all in the Ltd account, not Holdings, indicating that they were following the same practice.

But of course that was all caused by a confusion due to the previous owners incredibly confusing two company set-up, with similar named companies with Ltd and Holdings. Apart from the completely different company numbers which any half competent person would use instead.

And in five years they really tried to clear that confusion up. I mean, it's so difficult and time consuming to fill in a simple form requesting a name change and pay that massive admin fee to change the name to something that would make the distinction much more obvious. And before we go down the printing stationery costs excuses crap etc, it's irrelevant as they often used the wrong one (according to them) anyway, and it went totally unnoticed. In fact, to help they added in two more companies, Sky Blue Sports & Leisure and Otium, just to help make it clearer what was where!

After the council house thing, where Clr Lucas said she hoped to have us home by Xmas, Seppala's response wasn't to contact them for a meeting, it was to ask the courts to prolong a judicial review and write an extremely inflammatory (and seemingly massively inaccurate) press statement resulting in the Cllr hardening her stance once again. Because that's what Seppala wants. The Ricoh is still at market value, and she doesn't want to, or can't afford, that, so she's making negotiations impossible.

It would be interesting to see if the council could convince someone like PHIV to buy the Ricoh, a man with much, much deeper pockets than SISU, start work on the infrastructure and development and just wait for JS to run out of cash and be forced to sell.
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby The Yid » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:40 pm

Can you find anywhere a single piece of evidence that clearly shows that SISU/Otium have acted unlawfully or illegally??

If there is then surely it would have been acted upon by now??

I suspect there is in fact nothing at all - although you could well say their actions are morally wrong.

If Bob Ainsworth believes his 'irrefutible' evidence is that concrete why has he only ever discussed this when inside the parliamentary buildings - protected by its privilege
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby The Yid » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:43 pm

AD wrote:It would be interesting to see if the council could convince someone like PHIV to buy the Ricoh, a man with much, much deeper pockets than SISU, start work on the infrastructure and development and just wait for JS to run out of cash and be forced to sell.


It's a bit early for April Fools isn't it? He's got about as much money as Dhinsa.
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby the boss » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:28 pm

for fuck sake :roll: If they want the ground they should bid for it, its not fucking difficult is it :roll: :roll:
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby the boss » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:32 pm

The Yid wrote:
If Bob Ainsworth believes his 'irrefutible' evidence is that concrete why has he only ever discussed this when inside the parliamentary buildings - protected by its privilege



because even if he is 100% correct they would more than likely tie him up in a legal case that would last for years and would bankrupt him.
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby The Yid » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:09 pm

the boss wrote:
The Yid wrote:
If Bob Ainsworth believes his 'irrefutible' evidence is that concrete why has he only ever discussed this when inside the parliamentary buildings - protected by its privilege



because even if he is 100% correct they would more than likely tie him up in a legal case that would last for years and would bankrupt him.


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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby The Yid » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:10 pm

At least Callum Wilson has signed a new deal.

Big shout out to adge who must be thrilled beyond measure.
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby billythefish » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:15 pm

The Yid wrote:At least Callum Wilson has signed a new deal.

Big shout out to adge who must be thrilled beyond measure.


Great news - to be fair.

If history is anything to go on then watch him now have a total loss of form and be unable to hit a barn door from 5 yards.
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby AD » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:51 pm

The Yid wrote:Can you find anywhere a single piece of evidence that clearly shows that SISU/Otium have acted unlawfully or illegally??

If there is then surely it would have been acted upon by now??

I suspect there is in fact nothing at all - although you could well say their actions are morally wrong.

If Bob Ainsworth believes his 'irrefutible' evidence is that concrete why has he only ever discussed this when inside the parliamentary buildings - protected by its privilege


Can you find anywhere in that post that says I suggest they've acted unlawfully or illegally? That is why SISU is owned almost exclusively by lawyers - allows them to sail very close to the rocks, or find loopholes, to get them out of spots.

Neither have I suggested they will do anything illegal if/when they get their hands on the arena. They will keep it separated from the football club, as they are entitled to do. That company will keep the revenues from the stadium and any subsequent development, as it will be allowed to do. I firmly believe they will charge Coventry City some sort of rent or leasing fee (which I also believe will be in excess of the offer made by ACL) to give it access to the matchday revenues (which are paltry in comparison to the overall takings), which will be legal too.

It's not the legality of it that is the issue, it is the beneficiary of it. And that will be SISU, not Coventry City or the city of Coventry as a whole.

I would love nothing more than to take shitloads of abuse in a few years time because SISU have given the club all the revenues and marched us back up into the upper echelons of the game. But I know I won't.

These questions need to be put to Joy Seppala during negotiations.
1. Will Coventry City be the owners of the entire arena and development land?
2. Will Coventry City be charged in any way, be it rent, management charge or any other type of payment, for use of the stadium?
3. Will ALL STADIUM AND DEVELOPMENT revenues, not just matchday revenues, be part of Coventry City's revenues?

Bet we don't get an answer to these.
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby plastic scouser » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:09 am

billythefish wrote:
The Yid wrote:At least Callum Wilson has signed a new deal.

Big shout out to adge who must be thrilled beyond measure.


Great news - to be fair.

If history is anything to go on then watch him now have a total loss of form and be unable to hit a barn door from 5 yards.



:lol: :lol: Its funny cos its true.

the boss wrote:for fuck sake :roll: If they want the ground they should bid for it, its not fucking difficult is it :roll: :roll:


No point bidding if its "NOT FOR SALE TO SISU" as has been CCC's stance up until now....

AD wrote:
It would be interesting to see if the council could convince someone like PHIV to buy the Ricoh, a man with much, much deeper pockets than SISU, start work on the infrastructure and development and just wait for JS to run out of cash and be forced to sell.


That would only be interesting to see the massively hypocritical reaction from the ACL fan-boys lining up to suck a random property developers cock..... because any cut-throat property developer with zero interest in football owning the shitty Ricoh is better than a football club owning hedge fund apparently....
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby billythefish » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:51 pm

I have to be honest I dont really care who owns the club as only an idiot would buy the club in the first place. Wonder how much money KC has? 8)
What makes Preston, Dhinsa or any other potential owner more palatable than SISU? What makes anyone think that they are in it for the love of the club or the City or any other misguided belief. They are all interested in one thing and it isnt the club alone.

SISU/otium are the owners at the minute and for the foreseeable future. The only way they will ever get the money back purely from the footballing side is if we get back to the premiership. Which is about as likely as me winning Miss World!. The only other way I can see them making money is on the development of a site including a ground be that the Ricoh or another site.

I am still not convinced that the Ricoh and site is that profitable. Yes there is potential to improve things but in what way? A hotel etc is only useful if the Ricoh is used more regularly with "big name" artists. Most of the artists and events that would fill a stadium like the Ricoh generally only have a handful of UK gigs. You are competing with so many other stadiums to get the gig (50+ football stadia, cricket grounds, rugby grounds as well as other green spaces like Hyde Park etc).

There was something in the press recently in South Wales that the new Cardiff City stadium has made over 200 presentations to promoters and had only managed to get 3 or 4 events. They spent more chasing the events than they did through profit of the 3 or 4 that took place. It is a tough market out there and I doubt that many artists would play the Ricoh ahead of other venues. It will get its share sure but enough to build hotels etc? Not convinced. Without the events the Hotels etc are worthless and that is where the money would be made.

I can see that there might be some potential to make it a multisport stadia perhaps. Have the Football, Rugby, Possibly speedway, greyhounds etc there but again unless you attract big events like semi finals and finals you wont make that much. Any competition for this is massive and you are competing with Twickenham, Millenium Stadium, Murrayfield, Old Trafford, Wembley etc etc. I would expect that if you looked at all these stadia they will argue that they are underused as there just isnt the events to go round.

And for that reason Im out!
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby Burf » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:21 pm

That would only be interesting to see the massively hypocritical reaction from the ACL fan-boys lining up to suck a random property developers cock..... because any cut-throat property developer with zero interest in football owning the shitty Ricoh is better than a football club owning hedge fund apparently....


indeed.

What makes Preston, Dhinsa or any other potential owner more palatable than SISU? What makes anyone think that they are in it for the love of the club or the City or any other misguided belief. They are all interested in one thing and it isnt the club alone.


exactly.
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby AD » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:34 pm

Burf wrote:
That would only be interesting to see the massively hypocritical reaction from the ACL fan-boys lining up to suck a random property developers cock..... because any cut-throat property developer with zero interest in football owning the shitty Ricoh is better than a football club owning hedge fund apparently....


indeed.

What makes Preston, Dhinsa or any other potential owner more palatable than SISU? What makes anyone think that they are in it for the love of the club or the City or any other misguided belief. They are all interested in one thing and it isnt the club alone.


exactly.


Of course there are no guarantees. It's highly likely that anyone new would not be doing it for the love of the club. History shows us to be wary of new owners.When SISU took over I thought it hard to imagine many could be worse than Richardson/Robinson/McGinnity. Maybe the likes of Ken Bates or Peter Risdale, but I was hugely wrong. I have no reason to disbelieve Haskell and his family have money - it's widely reported in the American financial press of their wealth, unlike Dhinsa, Alki David etc who were pretty much anonymous in terms of available info - but they do part own the Jacksonville Jaguars who are the worst team in the NFL so their record in sports is hardly endorsing.

So why am I prepared to take that plunge into the unknown again? Because I cannot find a single area of this club/business that SISU has not made massively worse. League position? Financially? Geographically? Support? Public relations? All of them have not just got worse but have nosedived at a rate a Kamikaze pilot would be in awe of. Yes, their hands were tied in certain areas but much of what has happened has been of their own doing. But scarily SISU could come out of this better off by making the club WORSE! If they charge the club an extortionate rent, who is going to fight it this time, and go on a rent strike or move out? Not going to happen, as they control both.

So given all that with a choice of the devil and the deep blue sea, I choose the ocean as it at least provides a very small chance of salvation as opposed to the certainty of an eternity of suffering.
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Re: Last Chance Saloon

Postby the boss » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:42 pm

plastic scouser wrote:
the boss wrote:for fuck sake :roll: If they want the ground they should bid for it, its not fucking difficult is it :roll: :roll:


No point bidding if its "NOT FOR SALE TO SISU" as has been CCC's stance up until now....

.



IMO that is utter bollox. SISU have never said they are willing to pay the market value. They are all smoke and mirrors. If they want the place why don't they agree to a independent company putting the market value on the place and paying that figure for it or walk away for good. The simple fact is they want it for next to nothing and don't mind if it take ruining a football club to get it.
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